Yanks At The Deadline
posted by Kalel9 @ 7:43 AM
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Thursday, July 31, 2014
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34 Comments:
I wish we were as smart as the Sox.
Sox also got a competitive balance pick. Interestingly enough, the A's probably won't offer arb to Lester, so he won't have a pick attached.
A's can't offer arb under the new CBA just like the Yankees can't with Headley.
The RS can conceivably end up with both Lester and Cepedes.
We could have done similar stuff with Cano. We could do it now with Robertson. Obviously, we're not getting Cepedes for a reliever, but we can trade him and re-sign him and jump start this thing.
As much as I don't like Cashman, this starts with the owner and/or Levine.
But they probably think the RS are being stupid, fatuous in baseball terms are they are.
They're being foolish. The Red Sox were most demonstrably closer to a World Series than we are, having just won one, And they were still wise enough to sell when the issues got to a level that couldn't be overcome by trashing their farm for bandaids.
Why has Levine not been fired yet? He did his thing with the new stadium, now get out. I agree with you Lawyer and Phil, regardign the future. For years I have wished the Yankees would make long term trades, when the Sox dealt Beckett and Crawford, they were able to reset. Cashman never seems to do that ever. One or two of those trades during his tenure would have surely set us up in a much better position then we are now. I totally see us being in on Lester during the offseason.. Now that Jeets is retiring this is the perfect time to go with the youth, and try to find that next franchise player. Not sure Cash is the guy that should be doing it, but at the same time ownership has hamstrung what he can do.
Hal probably put him on auto-pilot and since the money still rolls in, he hasn't bothered to consider a reset.
Yanks reportedly working on small deals. That's ominous.
I think Cash argued for a reset when ARod opted out, and was rebuffed.
AS you both have pointed out the bigger issue is ownership, and I agree. I would really love to see what Cash could and would do if was given no restrictions. It seems the moves he makes are to serve two masters. One to try and stay competitive, and more importantly to not go over a certain budget he is provided. Granted they spent a ton on Ellsbury McCann ect.. which probably should have been elsewhere spent. The division as a whole is down, so now is the perfect time for a reset, I hope the powers that be see that if they want another run like we've had it starts with smart personnel moves.
I personally don't understand the vitriol thrown at Cashman on here. Can any of you name a trade within the past few years where he gutted the system? I see a lot of trades of second tier prospects and some shrewd signings, but that's just me.
Player development is tricky and you can't blame Cashman for prospects flaming out or getting injured, it happens. You have guys who come up as unheralded prospects like Paul Goldschmidt that turn into Superstars and then you have guys who bust all the time. It's an inexact science and sometimes you find lightning in a bottle and other times you don't, it's the way it works. There are far too many variables that affect prospects and their development and thats not even mentioning injuries.
I don't see the Red Sox as being "smart" in this deal. Smart would have been locking up Lester long-term before the season began at a discounted rate. I'd rather have the proven left ace, who's an absolute workhorse then a competitive balance pick and Cespedes, who's 29 and a pending FA next year. He also has a career line of .260/.318/.470 so other then his highlight throws and home run derby pedigree, he's nothing to cry home about.
It's hard to digest but the Yankees do care about their image, which is why they signed guys like McCann and Ellsbury -- both of who'm I still feel strongly about. Jeter will be leaving and they are two great clubhouse guys that can lead the team when the torch is passed. This aspect of baseball cannot be overlooked. We paid market value for both and as fans, we should support them as Yankees instead of complaining that they were signed in the first place.
Beltran is another story but I'm happy to have him for 3yrs then Choo for his deal especially seeing as how he can't hit lefties. Beltran has been hurt and hopefully he rebounds. Either way, Beltran isn't blocking anyone at this time and even if he was, prospects need time to develop. They aren't always going to come in and be Mike Trout -- Case in point - Gregory Polanco.
Go Yanks
Ellsbury is Gardner. and there's nothing wrong with that, though the Gardner price for that model is much better.
However; we had an orderly stream of catches developing in the minors and we blocked them with McCann and yet another pound foolish investment by the Yanks. They were willing to let Russel Martin go when he could have lead right to the young catchers. Then they were willing to play Stewart and assorted crap, so they could have lived with some ups and downs with the kid catchers.
Dumb signing and he's struggled so far. Beltran is in physical decline, even if he can still hit when well enough to play.
They Yanks should have used this stumbling period to rebuild, and they should have held onto their three firsts this past draft, or at least two of them, Not having firsts screwed their pool and forced them to take tons of college picks, and sign only 1 prep.
Ridiculous if the goal is to build to another dynastic run.
"It's hard to digest but the Yankees do care about their image..."
There's the problem in a nutshell, Billy. Ownership is more concerned with how they look to the casual fan than they are about setting up the team for another multiple-year run.
Phil, If Cashman was truly rebuffed on the idea of a reset when A-Rod opted out, then if I'm him, I let my contract expire after the season and GTFO.
How can he gut the system when the system has produced so little?
Therein lies the "vitriol," along with his trolling fans for saying they hate HR, when they don't, they just want HR from hitters that have some plate coverage too.
And his "pitching holds the keys to the kingdom" nonsense.
Or his trading of Montero at a high point in value for a lottery ticket who has velo had declined in the 2nd half of 2012.
And that offseason, just two years ago, he said he had offense to spare. Who could have known that his aging roster would decline?
Or his unnecessary insult of an aging Yankee great like Yogi for his comments on Nunez.
Player development is tricky yet virtually every other GM has presided over much greater developmental success.
You like a 37 year old added to an aging team for three years? What else is there to say?
Poor Cashman. He became GM and was handed a near perfect team that was still young, yet despite that fact, he has been unable to replace any of the core players except Mo (which says something about the value of relievers), despite many years of foreseeability of the impending decline.
Red Sox just traded Lackey to the Cardinals. We'll see what they get. This is the first time Lackey has been on a team I don't revile. Yet, I still don't like him. Go figure.
One step back to take two steps forward. So simple yet it evades Prince Hal.
They got Kelly and Craig. Red Sox fans feel they lost the Lackey trade. Of course, getting rid of Lackey is probably always good on some level.
Both of those guys are underperforming relative to their (albeit limited) career norms. The Red Sox must feel both can bounce back.
I hate Lackey.
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"I think Cash argued for a reset when ARod opted out, and was rebuffed."
I agree with this comment. He stated publically many times back in 2007 that if AROD opts out and the Rangers money therefore dries up, he is walking away from Arod. Hank and the other cronies in the front office made that deal with AROD, and I am a bit surprised Cashman didn't just walk away when his contract expired. Who wants to work in such an environment? Oh.......wait. They pay him how much.:)
Everyone bounces back in that ballpark.
That was one of Cashman's few good decisions, but he would have taken A-Rod back, he correctly wanted the Texas offset included in any new deal.
The reality is that they may not have won in 2009 without A-Rod.
If they did not re-sign AROD, I think they would have gone hard after Beltre. That would have been a perfect replacement.
Even if that's true, it is impossible to project that what A-Rod did in the 2009 WS could be replicated by any other player at any given time.
So yes, in terms of a move in isolation, signing Beltre would have been superior to re-signing A-Rod, but the WS drought could have been ongoing.
There is no way to know.
LINJ,
As much as most Yankee fans don't want to admit it, there's no "may" about it. No A-Rod, and they DON'T win in 2009.
How can he gut the system if it's produced so little?
As a "lawyer" I would have suspected you to actually read my post before saying something with very little merit.
The "system" in and of itself is meant to help support the major league club, albeit as a pipeline of talent that is utilized for trades or to augment the roster.
Your comment signifies that you don't understand the peaks and valleys of prospect development. You clearly expect EVERY prospect to turn into gold when statistics show us it's a rarity. Our system has had high end talents, most recently Banuelos, Betances & Brackman followed by the likes of Montero & Williams. Before that you had the Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, etc.
All of those guys were KEPT by Cashman instead of traded for big league players. Unfortunately, Banuelos/Williams have stumbled, Betances is now a stud RP and Hughes/Joba/Kennedy/Montero/brakcman are in different places having never panned out into what we all dreamed of.
Cashman could have easily traded away those talents and received back Cliff Lee or other big name players, but he refused and tried to develop home grown players.
This worked for the likes of Gardner/Robertson/Nova/Cano/Warren/Betances/Greene but you can't predict failure.
I guess not everyone has this crystal ball that you do that could have predicted Pineda was going to show up out of shape and try to overcompensate and get hurt. Yea his velo declined as the season wore on but for a rookie pitcher, that's EXPECTED, especially when they start reaching their highest inning totals for their lives. Then again, I don't expect you to understand that.
Please feel free to present some arguments that have some merit, specifically these GMs that have "greater development" that they've presided over. Show me a GM that has picked in consistently late in the draft that has an entire team of home grown talent.
Sorry for the rant but if you've never worked in baseball or played in professional baseball, you're just another guy who thinks they know it all.
Billy,
Not sure who you are talking to, but the smartest people in the world are probably NOT baseball players or baseball executives, and they are certainly not baseball reporters.
What's more there is absolute statistical transparency for all baseball performances and even contracts. There might be ownership complications that are hidden or masked, but making any case that one has to have either played pro baseball or worked in baseball, to talk about it is ridiculous and beneath you as an intelligent person.
My belief is that when people resort to insults, it's tantamount to admitting they are wrong.
Here's the reality: They have not integrated an in-house starting position player on to the roster since Gardner, nor a top of the rotation starter since what Pettitte or even Wang? Phelps and Greene don't qualify yet, if ever.
Yes, as I have said, they have been able to develop bullpen help, but that is the least important part of any roster.
He didn't trade for Lee because of Nunez. That says what exactly?
Why do I have to cite a GM who has picked late in the draft? All I have to do is cite players who were picked outside of the first round.
So let's look at Tampa.
Shields was picked by them beore the trade in the 16th round.
Cobb was selected in the 4th round.
Moore in the 8th round.
Jennings in the 10th round.
So hey, keep up the insults. It makes your case even weaker.
As for Pineda. Who needs a crystal ball? Are you familiar with the phrase injury matrix? Pitchers under 26 are more likely to sustain arm injuries.
I repeat: His velo was down BEFORE the trade.
To make matters worse, they kept him in the competition for the rotation in his first ST despite declining velo and arm issues. That was BRILLIANT!
"The "system" in and of itself is meant to help support the major league club, albeit as a pipeline of talent that is utilized for trades or to augment the roster."
The pipeline that isn't.
Fake Heyman account just posted Byrd to the Yanks. Then Heyman reported it's not true.
It was directed towards Lawyer of NJ. While I agree and at times, disagree with posts from you Kale, I respect your views because they are generally thought provoking and substantiated with supplemental evidence.
Anyway, it looks like I deleted the end of that sentence. It should have read:
Sorry for the rant but if you've never worked in baseball or played in professional baseball, it's impossible for you to identify the root cause of these development issues and assigning blame as a bystander is pointless. You're just another guy who thinks they know it all.
new post
I'm glad you chose the Rays as an example, Lawyer in NJ.
How many years did it take them to build a team that was even in contention? They were able to grab high end talent that was cost controlled having the #1 pick for multiple years.
Your examples are crediting a GM for something his scouts did, which was find talent after the 1st round.
The Yanks swung for the fences to grab similar talent relative to their draft position (Brackman, Cole) & other high priced IFAs. Do you remember the name Wilmer Romero? He was a huge signing by the Yanks a few years back as a 16 y/o out of the DR. He great 7 inches and is now a stiff. At the time, he was rated the #1 available IFA but most publications.
Imagine if the Yanks had the #1 pick and selected Tim Beckham over Buster Posey? What about if the Yanks let Josh Hamilton go in the Rule 5 Draft?
My point is that the draft and player development is an inexact science that each team does differently.
Look at the Pirates for example, they were absolutely destroyed by the media and other teams for the type of training regimen they put their prospects through. It was a military style bootcamp but look what's happening over there? They are starting to churn out some very good prospects.
Blaming a GM is just an easy way to point the finger. He is ultimately responsible for the staff he employs but to say there's a proven concrete way to develop players is asinine.
Are you serious?
The Rays are spending $76m this year, last year $61m, the year before $63m, and the year before $42m.
The NYY have spent over $200m a year for about a decade.
In what universe is that a level playing field?
Sorry, but this is silly. Think what you want.
Wilmer Romero actually homered today.
Marcos Vechionacci was a kid who outgrew his baseball talent.
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